You thought wrong...

[AndrewBall]

I dont go out of my way to prove my car is much faster then most in my area, my car up until last week didnt look like anything special infact besides the racing wheels and hoosiers on it and the stromung exhuast, Big Brembo's, and coil-over suspension it looked normal, like any mid-teenage boys car, only my cars M20 is sitting in my cousin 2002tii, meaning i got something cooler for mine. Like an S50 with a few mods dyno at 306hp@ 6400rpm with 256lbs of torque. So of course the nice deep purr of the car attracts every tool in my school that ever opened a car magazines attention to try and race it. So the other day im driving home from school on a cool 60degree day, perfect fall day for horsepower. Sunny out so i take the long way home. On my way to the fun roads there is a long flat straight kinda like a highway but not just a high traffic road, but i get out of school at 2:15 so there is no one around so its empty, i left school noticed a few tools in Civics and Accords and preludes and integras, i figured they just lived out this way. I got on to this large open road and accelerated like a normal person to about 10+ the 50mph speed limit. and i hear the loud annoying noise of japanese engine trying to sound intimidating, i maintain my speed and they all go by pushing the piss out of their little cars to seem like they are going fast. they passed me at about 75, im doing 60, i unfortunatly knew the one kid and i dont really like him cause hes kinda dumb, so he gave me the finger as he went passed i had heard every one of the cars shift 4 times, and they were in the upper RPM of fourth, those cars only have 5 gears this is real sad for them im going 60 in 3rd gear at 4000rpm my 12lb flywheel helps alot too . i let them get about 100 yards ahead of me when the one kid stuck out the window of the one car and flipped me off, so i said ok its war now. so i stepped on it, and quickly reached 80 having to shift into to fourth low rpm 90mph in 4th they shifted again and are doing about 100, the one kid who was flipping me off started to get a confused look on his face as i came up on them at 125mph, i got up next to them which took no time to go by and drove past him with about 4"s of room from my mirror to his, at 100mph its little scary for someone who might not know how to handle them selves this scared the hell out of this kid and he ducked back in teh car real fast and hit his head on the way in, as i blew by them i caught the other one he was doing at the most 100 and i went by him at 135, still 3 more i stayed on it and reached for sixth as i came up on then next one they were amazed that my car could go this fast, still accelerating i caught the other ones passed him and came up on the fastest of the crap who was topped out at maybe 135 who is quite bold, as i came up on him he tried to move over and block me, he must of forgot ive raced on a track before or something, he did that i turned the other way missing his rear fender by an inch at the most, and hit the brakes a little bit he came back into the other lane to block me again his crappy suspension had him now, so i floored it and went by him, now having defeated them all i slowed down from 155 mph slowly having not really pushed too hard at all, i finally came up the the tisty roads where the still followed me, i had planned on speeding here, i have radar and know every turn and speed trap better then i know myself, so i come up to teh first turn they are trying to act tought after i imasculated them moments ago and try and get all over my ass, hear i come on a nice 80mph downhill right hander i came up to it at about 100 they got on thier brakes 50 feet before the turn and slowed way down, having trust in my brembos that prolly have more bhp then thier engines i slowed down right before i turned in, nailed the apex and accelerated the rest of the way throught i concentrated vigorusly on the road till i reached a small straight and glanced in my mirror and noticed no one, about 15mins later i reach the road my house is on i drive normally cause my neighbors are weird and know what my car is. i get to my house about 5 miles up the road when i finally catch a glimpse of them, thinking what jackasses they just dont give up, do i to explain to them why my car is faster or what? now that i tell the story it wasnt as funny as it was when it happened but still a story where a BMW imascualtes the Fast and the Furious, with out trying.

 

[QuickCivicGuy]

Sounds like you watch a little too much television

Oh and paragraph breaks are your friend mmmmK

 

[AndrewBall]

dont watch tv, hate it. how about you?

 

[MrElussive]

Nice run. I don't understand why people hate Japanese cars so much.

 

[Tom]

Nice kill Andrew.

 

[mikev]

nice description and nice kill.

 

[AndrewBall]

i dont hate japanese cars, but alot of people think they are something they arent, and fast surely isnt one of them. They need alot of work to be a competitor, as where an old BMW for less money than a 90's Civic will have more power and be faster with less money spent. Sadly my M20 crankin out about 200horse would beat the snot out of jsut about any car in my school in almost any form of racing, why? cause along with 200hp i make atleast 190lbs of torque meaning im using every bit of that power. where a Civic with 200hp might only be making 140lbs of torque, using alot less power, and the german engines are built for more abusive conditions than the Japanese Motors. How many 70's Japanese cars do you know that will start and drive, and drive hard everytime? not many lots of 2002's with minimal maintenence do ti everyday, some 2002 racecars that have had the same money someone might spend on thier body kit and nos system will beat it, with its little 2000cc engine. the difference is the BMW motors come out of the factory with alot more compression i run 12:1, most of teh tuned japanese cars run maybe 7:1 or 8:1 numbers like that, also they use engines that are tuned for economy, and most parts are universal on a paticular Make, a BMW, you cant use a anything from a different model pretty much. Thing is, i dont mind if people tune thier car have fun, but dont try and think its something its not. cause just because your car can do 130 mph doesnt mean its fast, cause that might be all faster it will go, meaning your running the piss outta that thing. If you own a BMW with a few performance upgrade you will notice you can spend 500$ and have a gitty little car that will go over 100 with no problem, and will do it in a very short distance, my car might not be great acceleration but that is because its all mid-range torque. MY dads Carrera 2s beats the 325is in a start always but i catch it in the midrange, then its 280hp says yeah you were saying? and pulls away. but while i had the S50 in my car which i took out and saved for a racecar in a few years, the C2s was saying um...hey, its passing us. So now i have my 3.0liter 12:1 24-valve 6 cylinder, cranking out 240+ hp which is about all i can get out of that with out spending all kinds of money. But what im saying is, japanese cars will never make the kind of power the BMW's make just because they use a different design. And if you have NOS its retarded, have fun spending 3500$ rebuilding your engine, stop wasting your money on something that only costs you more money, boost the compression get better valves and valve springs bigger injectors, better intake system, better exhaust system, an ECU that regulates it perfectly, and alot more. and you will spend about the same money as you would trying to set up your car with that shit, and you will make sustained HP and more of it.

 

[QuickCivicGuy]

Try again sweetheart My friends naturally aspirated 2.0L 4cyl puts out more than 240whp

Our 4 cyl street race motors in 2.4L format are putting down 280whp(aka 330hp flywheel) in conservative tune...even more in full race spec

There are race 4cyl honda's running 9 second 1/4 mile passes Naturally aspirated spinning to 11 thousand rpm.....and thats on a factory crank and only 2.2L

Dont lecture me on relaiblity....I drive a fricken Honda...Naturally aspirated youll be hard pressed to find a manufacture more in tune with extracting the most from the smallet of motors

The American record for specific output of mass produced cars has been held by Honda since 97 and before that it was in the top 3 the only other manufacturers to come close to producing the same power.....and the only close one is ferrari

I am putting down 175 to the wheels with basic mods....thats 210-215 at the flywheel from a 1.8L.....my compression STOCK is 10.6 the japanese version is 11.0 and the tuned motors are running 15:1 compression....I think youd better learn a few things before trying to spout off about things you know very little about

 

[AndrewBall]

ok, then explain why they are no match, and i seem to remember Mazda being the only japanese company to ever win Lemans, and they have never won a forumla one championship, what do they win? Japanese Touring Car? hmm wonder why...Horsepower is nothing without torque, i make 220whp, and the stability of the BMW is outstanding, i can corner at speeds well over what many drivers are even comfortable at, and the car just sticks to the road, The BMW S14 proven the best cylinder in the world, reliable, powerful, small. And a race 4cylinder is fast no shit, there is well over 30grand into a race prepared car, and your 2.0L generating 240hp...where did you calculate that from? ur ass? cause think of that, a 2.5L with no mods make 165, take my engine i crank out around 255+ at the wheels, now how does a 4cylinder 2.0L make the same horsepower as my BMW CCA Prepared 6cyclinder running 2.8L Bigger Fuel Injectors, 12lb Flywheel, Intake system, Dinan ECU, Dinan Intake Manifold, Stromung Exhuast, 288Cam, Performance Valves, and Valve Springs and Wiseco Performance Pistons...i put out 255hp which is a whole lot, 255 is now, how can this beat prepared Honda Engine that put out atleast 280whp...Cause I seem to clearly remember lapping an late 80's Honda Touring Car making all kinds of power, yet i was faster down teh straight, better in the braking and accelerated better in the turns...I still have Rookie Stripes on my car, hes been there for a while...why is it not faster? huh? why? I know why, cause if a 4cylinder was making 280whp from 2.4L then no one would have use for 3.0L + M3, M5 motors in racecars. but see they arent making that kind of power that goes to good use. Anycar can accelerate, put a twist in there and a braking zone, lets see who comes out on top. takes a real driver to accelerate as hard as a drag racer, then slow down dramatically, turn and accelerate just as hard again. I can tell you drive a Honda, cause you seem awfully upset about owning the inferior Honda Civic.

 

[QuickCivicGuy]

ok, then explain why they are no match, and i seem to remember Mazda being the only japanese company to ever win Lemans, and they have never won a forumla one championship, what do they win? Japanese Touring Car? hmm wonder why...Horsepower is nothing without torque, i make 220whp, and the stability of the BMW is outstanding, i can corner at speeds well over what many drivers are even comfortable at, and the car just sticks to the road, The BMW S14 proven the best cylinder in the world, reliable, powerful, small. And a race 4cylinder is fast no shit, there is well over 30grand into a race prepared car, and your 2.0L generating 240hp...where did you calculate that from? ur ass? cause think of that, a 2.5L with no mods make 165, take my engine i crank out around 255+ at the wheels, now how does a 4cylinder 2.0L make the same horsepower as my BMW CCA Prepared 6cyclinder running 2.8L Bigger Fuel Injectors, 12lb Flywheel, Intake system, Dinan ECU, Dinan Intake Manifold, Stromung Exhuast, 288Cam, Performance Valves, and Valve Springs and Wiseco Performance Pistons...i put out 255hp which is a whole lot, 255 is now, how can this beat prepared Honda Engine that put out atleast 280whp...Cause I seem to clearly remember lapping an late 80's Honda Touring Car making all kinds of power, yet i was faster down teh straight, better in the braking and accelerated better in the turns...I still have Rookie Stripes on my car, hes been there for a while...why is it not faster? huh? why? I know why, cause if a 4cylinder was making 280whp from 2.4L then no one would have use for 3.0L + M3, M5 motors in racecars. but see they arent making that kind of power that goes to good use. Anycar can accelerate, put a twist in there and a braking zone, lets see who comes out on top. takes a real driver to accelerate as hard as a drag racer, then slow down dramatically, turn and accelerate just as hard again. I can tell you drive a Honda, cause you seem awfully upset about owning the inferior Honda Civic.

Dude your funny...tell you what....watch the speed vision cup where the 3 series BMW's fight the Acura Integras and Civics.......Roger Foo won at Leguna in a 12,000 civic against race preped 3 series BMW's.....real inferior

The 240whp is what it dyno's..........Toda D' cams 13mm lift 305* duration cams, 12.5:1 compression, 84mm bore 89mm stroke, 10K+ rpm, Tilton carbon clutch with Tilton fly, ....I could go into it but you wouldnt even understand it anyway

Are you smoking crack or maybe your just unaware of Honda's dominance in the F1 realm of the 80's. They were so dominant that other teams were threating to drop out if the rules werent written in their favor.

Just so get an idea Honda's 1.5L V6 F1 motor was producing more than 1500hp on 60psi of turbo boost........they werent about to play the game with the whining companies so the dropped out of F1 for a while and re-emerged a few years ago. Even with rookie drivers and green F1 engineers they are still competitive...

Tell you what.....take your car to the drag strip....see if you can come close to running 9's, 10's hell even 11's Naturally aspirated.....when you can do something CLOSE to that I will introduce you to 4cyl street cars that have baby car seats and run mid 11's ALL MOTOR....

I dont see any 4cyl BMW's running 9's....10's.....11's? Where are the superior ALL MOTOR BMW's at.....[???1]

Oh thats right THEY DONT EXIST

Have you even been to a drag strip?

 

[QuickCivicGuy]

1 Bill Auberlen, BMW 325i
2 Pierre Kleinubing, Acura RSX-S
3 Will Turner, BMW 325i
4 Roger Foo, Mazda ProtegeES
5 Jeff Altenburg, Mazda ProtegeES
6 Chuck Hemmingson, Mazda ProtegeES
7 Peter Cunningham, Nissan SE-R
8 Mike Fitzgerald, Lexus IS300
9 Tim Pappas(R), Lexus IS300
10 Ken Dobson, BMW 325Ci

If Hondas were so "inferior" why is one in 2nd place? Naturally aspirated motors of 2.8L or less....

So lets see 30% German and 70% Japanese in the top 10.....Bill Auberlen also happens to be a super successful driver...but even still...the "inferior" Honda is right there with him smack dam in front a of a "superior" BMW driven by Turner....wonder how that happened

Keep spouting ignorance, its pretty easy to see you dont know much of anything about road racing.....when your trying to put down a chassis thats SCCA proven to pull more than 1.2g in lateral acceleration on R compound tires....your so clueless

 

[AndrewBall]

blah blah blah, my car can go 10.11sec on the quater mile, so shut the hell up you stuck up japanese driving piece of shit and go bother someone else for christ sake what are you trying to prove about your japanese car to a bunch of BMW nuts? Drag racing is crap, anyone can shift and anyone can drive straight, lets see how you hold up on wet skid pad, or wet track, at 135+ mph down to 35mph and back up to over 100, you and your pathetic 4cylinder, would be no compitition none in a race, you go spend your 50grand on a car to drive it for 10seconds, ill spend less money and drive for a longer time and have more power... end of story, shut up no one cares anymore except for you and your drag racing civic. I know alot of Drag Racers and non of them can drive, you know why? cause they are too busy driving straight and talking about thier NOS. i know why the 4cylinder BMWS arent winnign anything, because the only nice one is an S14 an enthusiast motor, expensive to work on and even ahrd to get ahold of. and the speed world challenge, i belive they run classes like the SCCA, so lets see the 3series BMWs which have so many limitations on them so that the rest of teh group can even compete...but i guess you forgot that, but i will say Alan Himes can really run those japanese cars but he still likes the BMWs cause they are faster, or should i call him and ask him again? and talk about what stuff i wouldnt understand? you havent mentioned anything i dont understand, besides the fact on how its even possible to have a 1.5L motor generate 1500hp cause if its that simple why arent they doing it today? I havent seen a Japanese Forumula One Car Compeitive... at all, anywhere.... you seem to take it real personal when German Engineering out performs the Japanese engineering, you seem to take it as a personal attack, when all i said was the German Sportscars have really been dominate since the beginning of the sportscar

 

[QuickCivicGuy]

blah blah blah, my car can go 10.11sec on the quater mile, so shut the hell up you stuck up japanese driving piece of shit and go bother someone else for christ sake what are you trying to prove about your japanese car to a bunch of BMW nuts? Drag racing is crap, anyone can shift and anyone can drive straight, lets see how you hold up on wet skid pad, or wet track, at 135+ mph down to 35mph and back up to over 100, you and your pathetic 4cylinder, would be no compitition none in a race, you go spend your 50grand on a car to drive it for 10seconds, ill spend less money and drive for a longer time and have more power... end of story, shut up no one cares anymore except for you and your drag racing civic. I know alot of Drag Racers and non of them can drive, you know why? cause they are too busy driving straight and talking about thier NOS. i know why the 4cylinder BMWS arent winnign anything, because the only nice one is an S14 an enthusiast motor, expensive to work on and even ahrd to get ahold of. and the speed world challenge, i belive they run classes like the SCCA, so lets see the 3series BMWs which have so many limitations on them so that the rest of teh group can even compete...but i guess you forgot that, but i will say Alan Himes can really run those japanese cars but he still likes the BMWs cause they are faster, or should i call him and ask him again? and talk about what stuff i wouldnt understand? you havent mentioned anything i dont understand, besides the fact on how its even possible to have a 1.5L motor generate 1500hp cause if its that simple why arent they doing it today? I havent seen a Japanese Forumula One Car Compeitive... at all, anywhere.... you seem to take it real personal when German Engineering out performs the Japanese engineering, you seem to take it as a personal attack, when all i said was the German Sportscars have really been dominate since the beginning of the sportscar

Dude your so full of BS its not even worth reading your GIANT paragraph posts

10.11....maybe in the 1/8 mile Thats so pathetic that you had to make up a time for yourself..........ROFL......and if you cant figure out how they made 1500hp with a 1.5L than maybe you should learn more about engines.........

Your a typical road racer wanna be....never been to a drag strip...arent competitve in your own racing venue and you wanna try to talk trash about shit you dont even know about

What are you like 12? Your pretty entertaining but it didnt take long for me to figure out that your full of BULL SHIT

10.11 = I am going to be laughing for days, you such a sad ignorant little man...have fun in you little fantasy world

Oh and just so you can try to figure out HOW the 4cyl motors are doing it I will post a link for you so you can see what a REAL 10 sec car looks like and how much power it has....because I will give you a little hint....alot more than you have


http://www.ericksracing.com/

I gotta show this post to my friends......they will get akick out of you man.....

 

[mikev]

ok, then explain why they are no match, and i seem to remember Mazda being the only japanese company to ever win Lemans, and they have never won a forumla one championship, what do they win? Japanese Touring Car? hmm wonder why...Horsepower is nothing without torque, i make 220whp, and the stability of the BMW is outstanding, i can corner at speeds well over what many drivers are even comfortable at, and the car just sticks to the road, The BMW S14 proven the best cylinder in the world, reliable, powerful, small. And a race 4cylinder is fast no shit, there is well over 30grand into a race prepared car, and your 2.0L generating 240hp...where did you calculate that from? ur ass? cause think of that, a 2.5L with no mods make 165, take my engine i crank out around 255+ at the wheels, now how does a 4cylinder 2.0L make the same horsepower as my BMW CCA Prepared 6cyclinder running 2.8L Bigger Fuel Injectors, 12lb Flywheel, Intake system, Dinan ECU, Dinan Intake Manifold, Stromung Exhuast, 288Cam, Performance Valves, and Valve Springs and Wiseco Performance Pistons...i put out 255hp which is a whole lot, 255 is now, how can this beat prepared Honda Engine that put out atleast 280whp...Cause I seem to clearly remember lapping an late 80's Honda Touring Car making all kinds of power, yet i was faster down teh straight, better in the braking and accelerated better in the turns...I still have Rookie Stripes on my car, hes been there for a while...why is it not faster? huh? why? I know why, cause if a 4cylinder was making 280whp from 2.4L then no one would have use for 3.0L + M3, M5 motors in racecars. but see they arent making that kind of power that goes to good use. Anycar can accelerate, put a twist in there and a braking zone, lets see who comes out on top. takes a real driver to accelerate as hard as a drag racer, then slow down dramatically, turn and accelerate just as hard again. I can tell you drive a Honda, cause you seem awfully upset about owning the inferior Honda Civic.

Dude your power output changes even halfway through the SAME post remember what your BSing about because others will! Fyi you don't do 10.11sec in the 1/4 "TRUST ME"

 

[Bimmubishi]

OH this is a rich one. I'm with quickcivic guy once again. Andrew, you know how much power you'd need to run a 10.11? I'm not even into drag racing and i know what that takes.

155mph? Ahahha. Comon.

People will hate to hear it but BMW and Honda are very close competitors in every way. Remember that they're the only two to have 100hp/liter and that Honda owns Acura so the two do compete in luxury markets.

Oh man, EDIT: Shifted into 6th? Whahaahahah. Hoosiers? what compound you running sonny? What track do you go to maybe some friends of mine have seen you there.

Aahahahah.

Woaa! EDIT AGAIN!! :

Your brakes have BHP? They have torque not horsepower. Also, how is a 12lb flywheel goung to do anything for power or speed? Please tell me cause I'm an engineer and I'm probably missing something on the fundementals of reciprocating mass.

 

[mikev]

Lighter the flywheel the quicker the acceleration and i suppose higher top end. thats what its suposed to do i don't know how much the OEM fly weighs but you don't get the kinetic energy produced by a heavier one so you actually slow down on hills. another example (just like slamming your car 1" off the ground) of how people get confused between a track setup and road setup. just like how a Mini One D will cream an F1 car on the roads that we drive every day!

 

[Wadula]

somehow i sniff a new candy apple here. i missed most of the action, what a pitty. Andrew, you should try to stay calm and not to yell and curse at others to prove yout point that makes you so "untrustable"...

oh and furthermore, i think even us BMW nuts appreciate a knowing civic driver way more than a "dreaming" bimmer guy. Sorry dude....but that's my two cents.

 

[Bimmubishi]

Mike V, only one of those statements are potentially true. The flywheel has inertia and yes it takes more energy to accelerate it, but once it's moving it has no bearing on top speed.

Acceleration is arguable because you can launch differently with a heavy flywheel it's most likely a wash in the end. If you calculate the added weight (a difference of a few pounds) for the gearbox in 1st through 3rd gear, the flywheel isn't spinning very quickly, the added reciprocating mass at that speed in my opinon doesn't matter although for a race car where every advantage (even those which sometimes only show on paper) is important, I'd use one.

In summation, I agree that it takes more power to accelerate a heavier object, negligable as it may be but it won't do anything for top speed.

 

[mikev]

Mike V, only one of those statements are potentially true. The flywheel has inertia and yes it takes more energy to accelerate it, but once it's moving it has no bearing on top speed.

Acceleration is arguable because you can launch differently with a heavy flywheel it's most likely a wash in the end. If you calculate the added weight (a difference of a few pounds) for the gearbox in 1st through 3rd gear, the flywheel isn't spinning very quickly, the added reciprocating mass at that speed in my opinon doesn't matter although for a race car where every advantage (even those which sometimes only show on paper) is important, I'd use one.

In summation, I agree that it takes more power to accelerate a heavier object, negligable as it may be but it won't do anything for top speed.

Yea i wasn't sure about the top speed issue i knew if it did it'd be like 1Mph

having experianced lightened flywheels on super cars I have owned such as the Enzo and my 360 i still have to say that when I halfed the weight on my 325i it gave it like 500Bhp. When i used the full 550Bhp i had i couldn't hold on but i was pulling 3sec 1/4 mile times but then i swapped out the engine until i go into F1 with my rice i mean race car Hmmm is there a smilie for irony??

 

[Bimmubishi]

you have an enzo too!? This is so cool!